muskrat_john ([info]muskrat_john) wrote,
@ 2007-04-19 13:02:00
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Current location:Muskrat Central
Current mood: pensive
Current music:"Out of Time" - REM

Huge Paizo news
After linking to Paizo.com as the place to pick up My Little Cthulhu and Angry Limited Edition My Little Cthulhu, should your FLGS not have it in...

...folks have been greeted with news that a "Major Announcement" would be coming down the pike.

Moments later, the announcement's been posted.

I knew about this a little bit ago, but it's a real shocker.

FROM THE PUBLISHER
Dear friends,

Today, Wizards of the Coast and Paizo Publishing announced the conclusion of Paizo's license to publish Dragon and Dungeon magazines. The magazines will cease publication following the release of the September issues, which ship to subscribers and newsstands in August. The final issues will be Dragon #359 and Dungeon #150.


Wizards of the Coast will be moving the kind of content currently found in Dragon and Dungeon to an online model. Both companies remain on good terms and continue to discuss future opportunities for publishing partnerships.

Today also marks the official announcement of Pathfinder, a new monthly 96-page, perfect-bound, OGL-compatible full-color softcover Adventure Path book printed on high-quality paper for use with the world's most popular roleplaying game. Over the last several months, the same editors who bring you Dragon and Dungeon have been developing the next evolution in RPG campaigns, and we hope you'll take some time to look at what we have to offer. Pathfinder will debut in August at hobby retail stores, bookstores, and here on paizo.com, and�though it's a book, not a magazine�we'll be offering a subscription service for gamers eager to add a vorpal edge to their campaigns. In fact, you can subscribe to Pathfinder right now and receive a free bonus Player's Guide to the first Pathfinder Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords.

Speaking of subscriptions, the discontinuation of Dragon and Dungeon will leave many of our valued subscribers with excess subscription credit. Paizo has set up a special Transition Page that offers multiple options to these subscribers.

We're sure many of you have questions about this development, so we've developed a special Frequently Asked Questions page that covers many of the issues you'll wonder about. If you don't see your question listed there, drop by the new Magazine Transition forum on our Customer Service messageboards, which we will be monitoring closely.

If you're concerned about the future of Paizo, you can relax. We're very excited about Pathfinder, our GameMastery line of RPG modules and accessories, our Titanic Games line of deluxe board games, and Planet Stories, our recently announced line of classic science fiction and fantasy novels. No Paizo staffers have lost their jobs as a result of this development�in fact, we're so enthusiastic about our future that we've recently hired several new employees. However, if you're wondering what you can do to help Paizo succeed in our new ventures, please visit our What Can I Do to Help? page.

Dragon and Dungeon have been the backbone of Paizo Publishing for five years since we spun off from Wizards of the Coast's periodicals department in 2002, and both magazines have been an integral part of the RPG publishing world for decades. Bringing the magazines to you every month has been a true honor, and we in the Paizo family look forward to the continuing honor of serving your gaming needs for years and years to come.

Sincerely,
Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC
April 19, 2007


And here's the official Press Release from both companies.

Paizo Publishing to Cease Publication of DRAGON and DUNGEON
Magazines to continue through September 2007


April 19, 2007 (BELLEVUE, Wash.) – Paizo Publishing and Wizards of theCoast today announced the conclusion of Paizo’s license to produce DRAGON and DUNGEON magazines effective September 2007. Publication of DRAGONand DUNGEON will cease with issues number 359 and 150, respectively.

"Today the internet is where people go to get this kind of information," said Scott Rouse, Senior Brand Manager of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS®, Wizards of the Coast. "By moving to an online model we are using a delivery system that broadens our reach to fans around the world. Paizo has been a great partner to us over the last several years. We wish them well on their future endeavors."

"We at Paizo are very proud of the work we’ve put into DRAGON and DUNGEON during the past five years" said Erik Mona, Paizo's Publisher and Editor in Chief of DRAGON. "While we'll all miss working on these venerable magazines,our talented editorial and art staff as well as our phenomenal team of freelance contributors will continue to produce high-quality, exciting, new OGL releases that are aimed at supporting our existing customers and beyond. We look forward to sharing useful and provocative new products that support our favorite hobby."

Subscribers should visit paizo.com/transition to learn more about the future of their subscriptions. Multiple options will be available for customers whose subscriptions extend beyond the final issues of the magazines. The final issues will be DRAGON #359 and DUNGEON #150—both of which will contain special content commemorating the history of the these incredible magazines. The Savage Tide Adventure Path will conclude as planned in DUNGEON #150.

Paizo will continue to publish its popular GameMastery line of RPG accessories, including a new line of monthly OGL adventure modules beginning in June with Nicolas Logue's Crown of the Kobold King.

Paizo Publishing spun off from Wizards of the Coast's periodicals department in 2002. In its five years as publisher of DRAGON and DUNGEON, Paizo introduced popular features such as the The Shackled City, Age of Worms,and Savage Tide Adventure Paths, the Demonomicon of Iggwilv, Core Beliefs, and Critical Threats. Paizo published three official DUNGEONS & DRAGONS hardcover books—The Shackled City Adventure Path, The DRAGON Compendium, and The Art of DRAGON Magazine. In five years of publishing DRAGON and DUNGEON, Paizo received twelve Gen Con EN World RPG Awards (ENnies) and the 2004 Origins Award for Best Gaming Related Periodical.

ABOUT WIZARDS OF THE COAST

Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. (NYSE:HAS), is aworldwide leader in the trading card game and tabletop roleplaying game categories, and a leading developer and publisher of game-based entertainment products. The company holds an exclusive patent on trading card games (TCGs) and their method of play and produces the premier trading card game, MAGIC: THE GATHERING®, among many other trading card games and family card and board games. Wizards is also a leading publisher of roleplaying games, such as DUNGEONS & DRAGONS®, and publisher of fantasy series fiction with numerous New York Times bestsellers. For more information, visit the Wizards of the Coast Web site at www.wizards.com.

ABOUT PAIZO PUBLISHING

Paizo Publishing®, LLC is a leading publisher of fantasy roleplaying games,accessories, and board games. Paizo's GameMastery line offers Game Masters fun and useful tools, such as Map Packs, Item Cards, and the newPathfinder Adventure Path books, that improve their fantasy roleplaying experience. Titanic Games, Paizo's board game division, unites the greatestgame designers to create compelling, challenging games like Kill Doctor Lucky and Stonehenge, the world's first Anthology Board GameTM. Paizo.comis the leading online hobby retail store, offering tens of thousands of products from a variety of publishers to customers all over the world. In the five yearssince its founding, Paizo Publishing has received more than a dozen major awards and has grown to become one of the most influential companies inthe hobby games industry.

Paizo Publishing, LLC and the Paizo “golem” logo are registered trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Wizards of the Coast, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering are trademarks of Wizards of theCoast in the U.S.A. and other countries. © 2007 Wizards.


So...wow. Um...there you go. As to what this means for Dork Tower in Dragon, Erik said in an earlier e-mail that WOTC has "not told me what role cartoons will have in their new site."

So all in all, a sad piece of news. I've always been enormously proud of being in Dragon, always strived to give them my very best work. One of my most cherished possessions -- the original artwork from Phil Foglio's first "What's New" from Dragon -- hangs proudly above my desk. Also, working with the Paizo folks has been nothing short of wonderful.

Change. Scary. Grrrrr.




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[info]arian1
2007-04-19 06:21 pm UTC (link)
Yay for ordering! Boo for no more mags :( That stinks.

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Bombshell!
[info]cheetahmaster
2007-04-19 06:25 pm UTC (link)
The good news is, I think this will lead to more Spelljammer articles being published.

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Re: Bombshell!
[info]humidcityloki
2007-04-20 03:27 am UTC (link)
You should pay us a visit over at http://www.spelljammer.org Hop on the SJ mailing list and join the development threads. We're hammering out 3.5 rules, creating in depth pdfs for different crystal spheres, and much more.

(I go by Loki De Carabas in gaming circles. )

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Re: Bombshell!
[info]cheetahmaster
2007-04-21 01:36 pm UTC (link)
Oh. Wow. Thanks for the hookup.

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Re: Bombshell!
[info]humidcityloki
2007-04-21 03:10 pm UTC (link)
No worries! I've been writing and developing SJ content on the list and the site for years (playing DND since 1979). We are always looking for a few good humanoids!

If you have any interest in Planescape I am a Manager for that Official Site as well (http://www.planewalker.com).

Look forward to seeing you on the SJ list!!

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[info]aseop_
2007-04-19 06:28 pm UTC (link)
I subscribed to dungeon magazine from issue # 48 to issue # 139, still it will be sad to see it go. I stopped because I'd moved away from D&D and I thought the older issues had better stories. Some of my favorites are from issues #50-75. Still I did enjoy the Polyhedron magazine while it was bundled with Dungeon.

Dungeon and Dragon were classics of the genre, and they will be sorely missed. I suppose nothing lasts forever, though.

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[info]thetathx1138
2007-04-19 06:37 pm UTC (link)
Bummer about DT maybe losing a publishing venue. But at least there's some warning!

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[info]hyrkanian
2007-04-19 06:38 pm UTC (link)
:(

Sad news indeed. I don't remember her name because I'm terrible with names, but I had a nice chat with a very charming lady at Dragon*Con several years ago (not saying how many years even if I remembered exactly!) We'd talked probably 10 minutes about gaming and convention stuff in general before I asked her what she did. She said she was either *the* editor, or one of the editors, of Dragon. I went all fangirl then and probably didn't get another coherent sentence out for several minutes after that. :D

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[info]talinthas
2007-04-19 06:39 pm UTC (link)
holy shit.

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[info]aota
2007-04-19 06:40 pm UTC (link)
Wow the end of an era! I was wondering about out those magazines for awhile now since my local game/comic shop had really cut back on them to the point of only getting them for people he knew wanted them in their pull boxes. Is their any print gaming magazines still available?

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[info]merseine0613
2007-04-19 07:02 pm UTC (link)
The last couple of weeks have been shitty, news wise. They had to go and take our Dragon Mag away too??

OMFG doesn't cover it.

God grant me the serenity....

to accept the things I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to play games and blow the shit out of Orcs, Goblins and other Bad Guys(tm) when I'm pissed about the things I can't change anyway....

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[info]sandchigger
2007-04-19 07:22 pm UTC (link)
Wow... I mean... just... thirty YEARS, man. I'm gonna go sit down.

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[info]the_gneech
2007-04-19 07:27 pm UTC (link)
I'm shocked. I'm stunned. I'm ANGRY.

And here I thought what they did to E-Tools was bad!

A world without Dragon magazine is barely comprehensible. It's like having one of your school buddies die.

I'm depressed now. :(

-The Gneech

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Wow.
[info]kobold_8769
2007-04-19 07:43 pm UTC (link)
No more Dragon magazine. Truly an age of darkness is apon us.

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[info]biomekanic
2007-04-19 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Well damn.

As a kid it was my entire monthly allowance to buy an issue of Dragon, and I did it like clockwork. I still have most of them somewhere.

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[info]icecelt
2007-04-19 07:53 pm UTC (link)
Oh no :

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[info]kensan_oni
2007-04-19 07:55 pm UTC (link)
The internet is a lousy distribution network for dungeon material. One is not going to be sitting in front of their computer with a 40 page dungeon to run it. I that Piazo has a poor understanding of the utility of actual print in comparision to the online format.

If the internet was such a superior way to distribute, why did Cook pretty much abandon it in favor of actual publishing?

I am going to miss the magazines. This is, as I feel it, a mistake.

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[info]thatsaabguy
2007-04-19 09:31 pm UTC (link)
Please keep in mind that Paizo only had a license from WOTC to produce these magazines. When our license ran out, they decided they wanted to take the properties in a different direction, and we wish them well with it. For allt he details, check out our FAQ: www.paizo.com/transition

Phil Lacefield Jr.
Sales Manager, Paizo Publishing

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[info]kensan_oni
2007-04-20 12:52 am UTC (link)
Ah, that's right. My mistake.

Still, I think that print is going to be superior to electronic distribution for at least Adventures. I am sorry to see Paizo lose the license.

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[info]x_mass
2007-04-22 01:12 am UTC (link)
Is there any chance of hasbro getting out of D&D and selling it to a book publisher e.g. Penguin, random house, bertelsman, etc i.e. someone who actually understand about publishing?

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[info]x_mass
2007-04-22 01:13 am UTC (link)
Also do you happen to know what will happen about LG (which I play in oxford with Tassek)

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[info]wizardru
2007-04-19 08:40 pm UTC (link)
This really upsets me, some. It's like some friends moving away, never to be seen again. This online venture of their smacks of Chainmail's misguided effort all over again.

Will you be getting a chance at appearing in Pathfinder?

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[info]trebor1415
2007-04-19 08:45 pm UTC (link)
It is the end of an era. I can't believe how sad this makes me. One of my goals as a writer was to get published in "Dragon." I moved away from that as I wasn't able to keep up with the rules changes after 3rd Ed came out, but in the back of my mind I always thought I'd catch up on the rules enough some day to send something in. Now it's too late.

I always wanted to get a cartoon printed in "Dragon" as well, but that was more of a long shot as I'm a better writer than artist.

Damn, there goes a big hunk of my childhood. I doubt I'll ever look for the on-line contect. Since I only play D&D about once every year or two years now, I don't have the interest in tracking stuff down on-line. I did pick up the occassional issue of "Dragon" now and then though.

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[info]trebor1415
2007-04-19 08:46 pm UTC (link)
John, am I the only one hoping and expecting to see a "Dork Tower" addressing this?

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[info]k_kinnison
2007-04-19 08:51 pm UTC (link)
I never was much into DnD. Mainly because most of the RPG games i played we more Sci-FI ROLE-PLAY using skill based systems and not hack and slash.

Tho to be quite honest, working at a FLGS and if I did DM a DnD game, I would probly be picking that up for game ideas. I really only read DnD for the comics, and back in the day for the Tim Wham games (Planet busters anyone?)

I agree the internet really has become more useful for RPGs then Magazines

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[info]humidcityloki
2007-04-21 03:19 pm UTC (link)
Nice to see someone else has a proper respect for the Lesmen! Mentor of Arisia approves!

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[info]dave_iii
2007-04-19 09:36 pm UTC (link)
I realize this is not a snap decision but I really have to say, I don't want an online only magazine. I like print magazines. I like holding them, carrying them around, being able to pick them up and put them down again. Online has it's advantages, yes, and I'm trying really hard not to question their judgment, since I know they did not come to this willy-nilly. (Or rather, I don't want to think they did.)

Awesome as the internet is, it's not the end-all and be-all. Some of us still like being in the real world, if marginally.

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[info]zenfrodo
2007-04-19 11:06 pm UTC (link)
It's all World of Warcraft's fault. You know it.

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[info]kensan_oni
2007-04-20 12:54 am UTC (link)
You know, in my thoughtless-ness, it comes to me that this means you have one less (paying) avenue for your art, which really bites. I'm sorry about that.

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[info]muskrat_john
2007-04-20 02:43 am UTC (link)
Many thanks for that.

It was, alas, alack, also by far the best paying monthly gig I had going...

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Dragon
[info]zargon
2007-04-20 01:22 am UTC (link)
But ... I don't *HAVE* a computer in the bathroom ....

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[info]gridlore
2007-04-20 02:15 am UTC (link)
But what are fifteen year-old gaming geeks going to read in the back of history class wheile the teacher drones on about some event that has been the centerpiece of the campaign for three months?

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN????

(what, you never raided your history texts for cool ideas?)

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[info]pacothechicken
2007-04-20 02:33 am UTC (link)
i hvae to say im very disapointed. im one of the fans who enjoyed a copy od the mag in my hand and dislike looking on line to find the stuff plus im going to miss dork tower and nodwick, i just really am disapointed that to the readers espicaly since some time you get the idea in the middle of the game and have to pull out the magazine now you have to go to the computer spend time finding it and printing it out. i hope pazio enjoys this.. it really makes me want to have nothing to do with them.. bye the way im so excited i ordered a My Little Cthulhu through my local comic store and now am just waiting for it. do u ever come over to the east coast.. new england ish?

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[info]muskrat_john
2007-04-20 02:43 am UTC (link)
HUGE props to New England. Used to live in Connecticut. Big fan of Boston. Judith and I were talking of vacationing in Vermont...

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[info]pacothechicken
2007-04-20 02:52 am UTC (link)
awesome! i love new england! but i was wondering do u ever do the new england cons? lol i was kinda wondering if there was any chance to get the My Little Cthulhu signed?

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[info]muskrat_john
2007-04-20 04:10 am UTC (link)
Possibly. I do fewer cons these days, preferring to be a home-body. But if the right one came along...

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[info]pacothechicken
2007-04-20 01:10 pm UTC (link)
oh well cant complain with you being a home body, espicaly after you gave us those rules to live bye "the lake geneva conventions " i pulled it out one night at my weekly d&d game we had to stop because the we were all laughing to hard. the dm has been now threatened that we have the metal dice in the mail.

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[info]teddywolf
2007-04-21 12:25 pm UTC (link)
It's likely too late to be an Artist GoH for 2008 (it's a January con) but Arisia is a pretty good one around Boston. I'm GAFIAted from staff, but I'm still on a few panels. I am not sure if [info]jadasc is still running games room.

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[info]agent_23
2007-04-20 03:34 am UTC (link)
Hey John, did you get that original artwork from Phil or did you have to bid on it?

I missed bidding on Dave C. Sutherland III's Paladin in Hell original but I still wanted to contribute to the fund he was creating for his family after he passed away so I bid generously and won his TSR Employee Only Tiffany Crystal Dragon Logo which sits on the top shelf of my computer desk. I still can't believe the raw deal he got from the industry.

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[info]muskrat_john
2007-04-20 04:12 am UTC (link)
I bought Phil's piece when he first put it up for sale, before we became friends and before he knew he was my mentor. :-)

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[info]humidcityloki
2007-04-20 03:39 am UTC (link)
A sad and horrifying state of affairs. (And I speak as a new media proponet as well as someone employed in that field). Sitting in Audubon Park with a copy of Dragon letting game ideas come tangent off of the articles inside. Fresh air and a Hansen's Snoball while I developed my latest fiendish plots. Gone.

Sorry, even a wireless conncetion des not allow ease of reading on the streetcar, bus, train, whatever.

John, as a freelancer myself I feel the hit to the gut of a good contract ending unexpectedly. I am certain that your talents will not get wasted and a new venue for displaying them will present itself.

Best wishes from New Orleans on this sad day for publishing.

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[info]saintrigger
2007-04-20 12:57 pm UTC (link)
Growing up, I loved Dragon magazine. As a youth I covered by bedroom walls in pictures from there. I lived for Snraf Quest - the usual stuff.

Then around Jr. High and High school I would pick up the occasional issue and I didn't touch it much in college or beyond.

But here is what I noticed - Back "in the day" it used to be a great source for industry news and more or less covered all sorts of RPGs and goings-ons.

I recently had a look through an issue a few months ago, and it seems like a big advert for Wizards, and didn't really have much of the charm that I remembered.

While I am saddened to see it go becuase it is almost a passing of an era for me, I don't like what it has become and in my mind Dragon was already gone. "It's more marketing than magazine now, twisted and shilling"

I'm sad that this leaves you in limbo, however.

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[info]zomg_flashman
2007-04-20 01:38 pm UTC (link)
This is just, wow, kinda depressing. What about my regular Dork Tower strip?
I mean sure, there is the comic book, but that's ALOT harder to find. Few gaming stores in OC and even fewer still that carry the comicbook. Meanwhile every month I could look foward to seeing one of my favorite comics in the pages of DRAGON. This is really sad and I'm sure its even more depressing for John. Hopefully there will still be a place for the DT crew in Paizo's newest venture PATHFINDER.

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Wow...just wow.
[info]don_calvin
2007-04-20 04:59 pm UTC (link)
Hi guys -

Wow. I really feel the need to address what this means to me. A few notes first...

1) Obviously I'm a fan of material on the web. In a supporting role, however, because a lot of it's crap. Far too much of it is poorly written, poorly conceived, poorly edited or poorly presented. Probably because it's practically free. Pay a pittance for bandwidth, a bit more for the writer/editor and slap up a used piece of art and you're done.

2) I haven't been terribly happy with Paizo's efforts, particularly given the hefty cover price, but that may be a byproduct of feeling that "Every new book is nothing but a few new spells, a ton of useless prestige classes and eight hundred new feats"..

So, what does this mean to me? A great deal. I remember the excitement of Dragon magazine as far back as 1983. I had no trouble handing over the $3 or so for an issue, despite the relative impact of that on my finances as a 13-year-old. I'd eagerly devour the issue...sometimes starting with the Dragon Mirth and What's New comics, sometimes going front to back. Sure, there were always the useless, goofy or "simply beyond me" articles, but even the Psionic Ninja got a glance or two.

I remember the excitement of going through my first Gen Con program insert, eagerly circling events that sounded neat...I remember photocopying articles so I could use the class writeups or magic items in my games...I remember the awe at the beauty of the cover art (back in those days the Big Four - Easley, Caldwell, Parkinson and Elmore were regular cover contributors). I remember my pride at subscribing and owning such a comprehensive collection - something like 160 consecutive issues. That's 13 or 14 *WHOLE YEARS* of this magazine, starting around issue 50.

I am struck now by great sadness and melancholy. Today's 12- and 13-year olds will not have the opportunity to have these experiences. No one "oooohs and ahhhhhs" over a webposting. No one puts an CD copy of a site into a mylar bag, not for speculative value, but because they want to keep it in perfect shape for themselves. No one goes back through years of web postings to find "that one article" and find themselves flipping lovingly through pages of articles completely unrelated to their search. Web search engines prevent that. No one rushes to their bedroom to quietly absorb the work of web-posters like we did those near-mythical authors of Dragon magazine. Scott Rouse is both right and wrong. People go to the internet to get their info a la carte, picking the morsel off the tray. People don't go to the internet to find the kind of enjoyment that comes from a well-developed, smartly produced, paper-paged magazine. There's a reason I own all of the Dork Tower books...

I assume that this decision is financial in nature, perhaps supplemented by a thought that a paradigm shift is in the wind, driving people from all print media (as seen in the newspaper industry). There is a key difference between the Daily News and Dragon Magazine. One is a disposable item meant to be examined over coffee, with one article in ten thousand worth keeping. The other is meant to be part of a living library, an expanding collection of reference material and mythos, story and art. Without a physical presence, it can't be more than just forgettable blips on the screens of computers moments from wandering off to play Bejeweled or browse adult content.

Dragon & Dungeon have always been niche publications. Sometimes the niche has been large and sometimes it has been tiny. Circulation could never match that of Time, Cosmo or Sports Illustrated...but anyone that would expect it to is really just foolish. Perhaps that niche has shrunk too far...or perhaps "they" have decided it's time to put it to bed and do the trendy webpublishing thing. Regardless, I hope they reconsider.

Life is full of change, some say. Evolve or die, some say. Well, hot chocolate, pepperoni pizza & monopoly have all managed to remain comfortable, enjoyable and stable for many many years. Not all change is good, not all change is welcome, and not all change is needed.

Good-bye, Dragon Magazine. Even though we haven't been close for the last few years, I will mourn you just the same.

- Don

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Re: Wow...just wow.
[info]saintrigger
2007-04-20 06:50 pm UTC (link)
Don -

That was really said and echos my feelings too.

I still pull out some of my old issues of Dragon and they are equally as enjoyable now as they were then.

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[info]astronomerangel
2007-04-24 08:37 pm UTC (link)
I have mixed feelings about this.

First, it is always sad to see anything this long-lasting end. Dragon magazine really fostered the gaming industry in the early years, and much is owed because of that. Secondly, I agree with the mobile-print immobile-web statements. When I was younger, I would bring a small stack of the magazines with me for long car trips, reading, thinking, scheming. When on the go, browsing page after page is, well, awkward, when it comes to the net. No lazing atop your bed or couch, no slip-out between classes. In addition, the magazine format presented you with ideas that you wouldn't think of, and showed you why it was worth the read. In the web form, you look for what you want, and then leave it. It's the way we've become. You aren't interested in reading it at first glance? don't click the link.

Now for the flip of the coin.

I am Canadian. And with that, comes subscription hassles. I lived rurally; the closest gaming store being 30 kilometers away. I couldn't just pop off after school to buy one... and subscribing was too expensive (and as a kid, making your parents grow through that whole ordeal was trying), growing up. Not only was is about 150% of the American sale price, the shipping and handling across the border made it go to near 10 dollars an issue. My main method retrieval would be conventions, where I would buy 6-9 back issues.

So as it is, while its sad that that it's going out of print, I'll be able to get more out of an online copy in the long run. Assuming that the online content is anywhere near the quality of the current content, I'll be happy.

Mind you, this does not bode well for John.

(Reply to this)


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