muskrat_john ([info]muskrat_john) wrote,
@ 2008-06-07 15:38:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current location:Muskrat Central
Current mood: geeky
Current music:"District Line" - Bob Mould
Entry tags:amazon.com, dungeons and dragons

Fourth Edition
A confession: I pre-ordered D&D 4th Edition from Amazon.com. Not because of their prices, no. Not because I don't try and support my local stores at every possible opportunity. Again: no...a thousand times, no!

I pre-ordered it from Amazon simply because I thought I might forget when the books would be released, and miss the launch date.

I'm a dolt You couldn't swing a dead gnome (now a MONSTER) without hearing the massive industry buzz on the books, these last couple of weeks building up to yesterday's launch.

Anyway, I vow to go down to Pegasus Games and spend the money I would have spent on D&D books on something else - something I wouldn't just have picked up anyway - to help support the local Brick and Mortar. Maybe something really nifty for the lovely and talented Judith. Which will be easy to do, since I only spent $57.80 at Amazon for the three books, plus nifty slipcase. And yes, I do feel a little dirty, because of going the Amazon route, thank you very much.

ANYhoo, the books arrived yesterday afternoon: I got them on Launch Day, which was cool.

However, as we had a Madison Mallards game to get to soon after UPS arrived, I took them with me, to peruse on the way. Between innings, perhaps.

Yes, I'm a sad, sad individual. I was actually reading the hot-off-the-truck Players' Handbook on the way to a Mallards game (Judith, obviously, was driving). There's my life in a nutshell. If I could have also have been listening to Bob Mould (new album VERY interesting, btw), painting me some 15mm Panzer IVs, and cooking up a little carbonara at the same time - possibly while chatting about tiki bars with Wil Wheaton, comics with Alex Robinson or food science with Alton Brown - well, it would have been John's Perfect Geek Moment (and yes, I am grateful Judith still wants to be married to me, even with the fearful knowledge of this).

After the game, I read some more before bed. And by "some," I mean "half the book."

So far? I'm impressed. Very impressed. Great job, WoTC.

D&D4 seems to play to what I like in roleplaying mostly: streamlined, relatively elegant, mostly logical and not overly-fiddly. I honestly can't wait to give it a try. (Though still - boobies on Dragonporn? I mean, "Dragonborn"?)

However, here's a serious and worrying thought: if I wasn't such a spam-head, I'd have just waited and picked up the books at Pegasus Games like I really oughta should've done - and normally DO do - anyway. (He said "do-do." Heh heh, Heh heh). But over 45% off at Amazon? That's insane. There are lots of gamers out there who just can't afford $105 for three books, given the state of the economy. No matter how much people want to support their local stores - and my belief is that it is vitally important to do so, if a local store is even halfway decent and dedicated - that's the kind of deep, deep discount that'll be make or break for some people. Given the threat of recession, unemployment, inflation, etc., etc., I sure can't blame gamers who need most of their cash simply to put bread on the table.

But if it's "make or break," it'll be the local stores that are in danger of being broken.

What's to be done?








Bonus Questions

Who all's got 4th edition already?

What are YOUR thoughts?

And what should I buy at Pegasus Games, that I might not normally buy, to atone for Amazon?




Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

(Post a new comment)


[info]spkelley
2008-06-07 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I picked up mine at the other, more local to me, game store here in Madison. It's really tough. The debate about supporting the local brick and mortar store that is.

Thoughts? I am going to have some grognard friends that won't tough it because it's becoming more of a video game. Which is not wholly true, but their ignorance triumphs.

I am not sure at this point. I think it would be nice to give it a whirl. The DM's guide really fleshes out what a DM should take into consideration. A very big difference than in previous editions. Once I get down the encounter equation, it will be pretty smooth. I don't like the fact that monks and other classes will be coming out in additional supplements. So you want to play a different class, you're going to have to wait for PHB II to come out. It's the marketing/money-making machine that turns me off. That and D&D insider being preached from a high. WotC realizes now that all their free, online, content can be tapped for profit. Something I don't think the gaming community considered in the past when you look at all the stuff they have provided on the site for free.

It will do one thing, give people something to talk about and stir up some new ambitions on gaming. CLEAR! *zap*, something the industry, IMO, needed.

(Reply to this)


[info]dadiceguy
2008-06-07 09:53 pm UTC (link)
No 4E here. Too much of a grognard here. If I get the urge for some FRPG I will play Castles & Crusades. There was no 3.0 to speak of here either.

(Reply to this)


[info]dungeon_grrrl
2008-06-07 09:54 pm UTC (link)
Anything and everything they have from Paizo. Item decks, Pathfinder, a stand-alone adventure anything. Because Paizo is the other end of the D&D spectrum, and you want to support it all, right?

Right?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]muskrat_john
2008-06-07 10:16 pm UTC (link)
There is much love here for Paizo. Heck, I even did an exclusive My Little Cthulhu for them. :-)

http://paizo.com/store/paizoExclusives/v5748btpy7x8o

Though I confess, I do need to get more into Pathfinder...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]alphaant
2008-06-07 10:18 pm UTC (link)
I had preordered mine from Amazon, but ended up paying full price elsewhere. Amazon kinda ticked me off. I've seen products shipped before release date to arrive on the release date itself by Amazon (Harry Potter comes to mind immediately, and that was a Saturday release of all days), so why not D&D?

Ah well, I have the books now, and can't wait to play it. The books are quite beautiful. The art is superior to past editions across the board, the text is laid out well and easy to read.

There are a couple things I would revert back to a different version, but those are few and far between and easy to implement (think diagonal movement). I love the fact that they're giving fighters something else to do besides just "swing X weapon for N damage". Not having played yet, I worry a bit about how different the classes feel from each other due to the fact that mechanics are relatively similar for each power, but from what I've heard that concern is largely unfounded.

(Reply to this)


[info]thewalkingman
2008-06-07 10:38 pm UTC (link)
I don't think I've even played the 3rd edition. I'm way out of the loop.

(Reply to this)


[info]pinwiz
2008-06-07 10:42 pm UTC (link)
I'm actively thinking of getting a 4e trial group together, the first group gaming that I've done in years. That's a big change.

As for the Amazon/brink and mortar argument... I don't have a home gaming store so that's a little easier, but in general I'm mid-career shift and money is tight. I'm taking the best deal I can. I already had the PDFs off BitTorrent and had considered just working with them for now, but thought better of it.

(Reply to this)


[info]sabledrake
2008-06-07 10:48 pm UTC (link)
Haven't played D&D since GURPS came out, and after a personal crisis a couple years back, haven't even played that since. The hubby works at a game store and hangs with a younger crowd, though, and so has been bombarded with all this 4e stuff. From what he's been saying, he is far less than impressed.

-- C.

(Reply to this)


[info]graveyardgreg
2008-06-07 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Honestly, the negativity I've heard from folks on 4th edition is a turn off, not to mention it sounds like the design is all backwards. Instead of coming up with characters and having a framework for what they can do, they come up with a bunch of "rule effects" and have you graft a personality on to that.

Maybe I'm just bitter than gnomes are monsters now. I mean, come on! Gnomes?

(Reply to this)


[info]iamnikchick
2008-06-07 11:09 pm UTC (link)
I haven't played yet so my opinions are just from reading and talking. I started out fairly worried because the way the rules seem in print they're exactly what I don't want to be dealing with in play. If I want to play a dwarf fighter with e big axe, I want to just wade in with my big axe. The new system seemed to put a lot of fiddly book keeping and decision making back on the table for every action...now it's not just a matter of swing and attack, it's do I want to use this power or that power, which of my companions should get the bonus buff, etc. I lamented that under 3rd edition there was a zillion ways to build your character "wrong" when you found that your ideas didn't match up to the optimal builds or that you screwed your character out of being able to advance into something because you didn't start with that in mind. They did seem to address that problem in the 4E design but my big concern has been wondering if I'd be facing the same thing on a round by round basis (Oooh, you shouldn't have used your X attack and buffed Joe, you should have used Y and activated your once per day power! Now we're screwed!).

That said, I've been reassured after talking to some folks who have been playing the game under NDA for a long time that it actually plays out better than it reads. I'm not passing judgment. :) I also recognize that even if my own personal concerns aren't addressed, that's not a criticism of the game, just of my own preferences. I know now (and have always known) I'm not necessarily the target market for D&D. I didn't start gaming with D&D the way virtually all of my peers did, and I was often involved in what I discovered were actually some avantgarde circles in my professional career. Just like it was a surprise for me how hard it was for some gamers to get into Ars Magica's ideas of shared characters and rotating storytelling duties, there are guys who look at me and puzzle why I would have concerns about keeping track of optimal builds or tactics.

Hmm. Long answer. Maybe I should just put this on my own blog for good measure. :)

(Reply to this)


[info]sdharing
2008-06-07 11:20 pm UTC (link)
I, too, ordered 4e from Amazon, because the discount was too awesome to pass up.

On the other hand, it hasn't shown up at my house yet, so awesome discount or not I am less than thrilled.

As for what you should buy at Pegasus -- how about some D&D Miniatures?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]archmage45
2008-06-08 12:04 am UTC (link)
Mine haven't even shipped from Amazon yet...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]wordwill
2008-06-07 11:32 pm UTC (link)
My Amazon pre-order didn't even ship until launch day, so I ran out and nabbed a PHB from a bookshop. (No FLGS at all, down here.) It's different, but I like how it's different. I like editions of D&D the most when they're new, I'm learning, and a bit of wonder has gone back into everything. For one thing, I think magic is a little more magical this time out, and I appreciate that.

I've been liking the previews of 4E enough that I've been cooking up plans to launch my own little third-party-publishing outfit for D&D materials, so now I'm just waiting on the GSL so I can measure my hope against reality.

(Reply to this)


[info]xomec
2008-06-07 11:38 pm UTC (link)
I don't have the 4e books because my birthday is in just over a week, so any personal shopping is "on hold" until after I see what folks have gotten me and what birthday money, gift certificates, etc. there are to spend. Chances are, however, that I'll be picking them up in a couple weeks, if only for the same of keeping up with the Joneses.

What I've seen by way of previews, I've got to admit, doesn't exactly blow my skirt up. I think I've played an RPG using minis few enough times in the past 20+ years that I could still count them all on one hand. That 4e seems to be based around them (and all the related board-game/war-game style combat) is a deal-breaker for me.

Still, I've got a playtest game of Keep on the Shadowfell planned, so we'll see.

(Reply to this)


[info]gridlore
2008-06-08 12:11 am UTC (link)
Just ordered it. I've been waiting to see reviews from several different sources.

(Reply to this)


[info]116degrees
2008-06-08 01:17 am UTC (link)
I have played 4e, Today is worldwide D&D gameday and our FLGS had an event. I really enjoyed the new rules. It was simplified to say the least. We were using premade characters so I didnt get to play with the character creation but the actual gameplay was really quick and easy to pickup. Having the actual effects written on the sheet as well as what was the roll required worked very well. I would think that if you do create a character you NEED to fill in these details.
I suggest everyone to give the new edition a shot.
As for gnomes being monsters, so what the Monster Manual gives you other races that are playable as well as their special abilities and the things needed to create new characters, ie gnomes, drow, doppleganger, warforged.

There is a strong emphasis on mini's and a tactical maneuvers. If you were looking for a freewheeling narative game 4e isn't for you. Actually 3e or 3.5e wouldnt be as well since they were very tactical as well. I dig the some of the new tactical powers such as the marking by a fighter, effectivly ensuring the monster from running right by you and smacking the poor wizard or the paladin's divine challenge, causing damage if a baddie doesnt attack him.

I'm waiting for amazon to ship my gift set. I was tempted to drop the 110 bucks on the set, but i got ahold of my addiction and spent 25$ on new dice instead while i wait for my mail.

Overall, i like the 4th edition. I can't wait to crack open those books like i did 8 years ago when 3e came out or even 17 years ago when i got the black dungeons and dragons box with tanzer tems dungeon in it. I have that same giddyness.

(Reply to this)


[info]wolfsamurai
2008-06-08 01:36 am UTC (link)
Mine are on their way from Amazon as we speak. I did spend all day down at my FLGS playing the demo games and having a blast though.

(Reply to this)


[info]iceberg3k
2008-06-08 01:58 am UTC (link)
I both played and ran at my FLGS. My studied and serious opinion is that this is the best iteration of D&D that I have played in my 15 years of playing D&D. Combat is lightning fast, and I find that the skill challenge system encourages rather than stifles improvisational and off the cuff thinking (I had players who went pretty far off module for the latter half of the dungeon crawl and ended up Evil Overlording the thing!)

(Reply to this)


[info]doccross
2008-06-08 02:08 am UTC (link)
Since I didn't even like 3E, there is no chance I'll be buying 4E.
I will give it a look tho, sooner or later. One of my friends is bound to end up with a copy I can borrow.

As for what you should get at Pegasus Games to make amends for your evil online ordering ways, I think you should buy a bunch of stuff for Judith, in appreciation of her wonderful geek tolerance:)


(Reply to this)


[info]whisper_jeff
2008-06-08 02:18 am UTC (link)
"...the lovely and talented Judith."

All men need to take a lesson from you.

You are a good man. I have always been happy and proud to have you as a friend and reading that line just reminded me of one of the reasons why.

Yeah. Sappy. I know.

And, no - not drunk. :)

(Reply to this)


[info]jcfiala
2008-06-08 02:27 am UTC (link)
A) D&D 4e is a bunch of fun. My wife and I played at the thing this weekend, and it was a blast as a cleric, running around, healing folks, and beating up kobolds.

B) Why not buy a bunch of D&D minis? They're useful for playing D&D, and buying a few packs should balance you out.

(Reply to this)


[info]slev
2008-06-08 03:08 am UTC (link)
I'm not going to pick up 4th ed. It seems to tick too many boxes of what I don't want in an RPG. There are plenty of systems that can give me the same effect for less effort.

If you want to pick up something cool, a list of recent(ish) non-RPG releases that have been cool (since Judith doesn't RPG):
Race for the Galaxy
Saikoro
Felix: The Cat in the Sack
Ca$h & Gun$
Shear Panic

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]dragonbane
2008-06-09 05:14 am UTC (link)
Race for the Galaxy is fun but felt much more complicated while learning than it actually was in play. It therefore seems to have a steeper learning curve. I decided that overall I prefer San Juan, similar but simpler.

In the same vein, I wanted to recommend Ticket to Ride (the original version for 2-5 players, plus the Switzerland expansion for 2-3 players). Very few people I've shown it to have failed to enjoy it. I consider it the single best introductory board game out there.

For somewhat more complex board gaming that is still fairly accessible and rewarding, consider Pillars of the Earth, an excellent 3-4 player game with a new expansion that promises to make an excellent 4-6 player game out of it.

Edited at 2008-06-09 05:15 am UTC

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]arasirsul
2008-06-08 03:36 am UTC (link)
Atone? I don't think you need to atone at all. You ordered from Amazon because they had a service that made a lot of sense for you.

The idea behind supporting the ol' FLGS isn't something we're supposed to feel like we've got to do like eating our spinach when we were youngsters. One supports one's FLGS because they, too, offer a service that makes a lot of sense to us. But when they come up short, there's no reason not to go somewhere else that picks up the slack. Now, if your FLGS would pre-order you a set and make sure you got it on time, that's a different story-- but chances are, that's not what they do. They don't have the manpower to get into the shipping business.

So, sure, pick up something uber-cool from the FLGS, but don't feel like you have to because of feeling like some sort of schmuck because you took advantage of using Amazon for what they do best...

(Reply to this)


[info]darksuit
2008-06-08 03:50 am UTC (link)
You got very lucky, I pre-ordered and they pushed my order back to July 17th, i heard of some people getting thier orders pushed back to August. I wound up canceling my order and buying from the local game store.

(Reply to this)


[info]kensan_oni
2008-06-08 03:56 am UTC (link)
I got mine on Thursday evening due to the wonder of living less then 200 miles from the distribution center of Barns And Noble. It was like really rad and exciting.

Today I had the liberty of both playing and running 4E at the local Game Day. In a lot of ways, I felt like I was in 1987 again, running Star Wars for the first time. Checks were simple, there was a guideline for difficulty numbers, and it was easy to get players involved. In a way, it's a lot more tatical then people are used to, but I can also see managing to run the game without minis, also. YOu'd just have to be a little bit more liberal about placing and movement, but that is easy to do.

Overall, I enjoyed the day very much, and can't wait to have a chance to play my Eldian... Eldia... That thing Fighter/Wizard in the near future.

As for what to buy, if you haven't gotten Ticket to Ride yet, this would be an excellent time to do so. That is one game I always enjoy playing. Heck, a lot of new games hit the market this month. Just go to the what's new shelf and buy something. Odds are that you'll get a winner for at least a month or so.

(Reply to this)


[info]stormcrow42
2008-06-08 04:00 am UTC (link)
Purchased just the PHB from a big chain bookstore (FLGS isn't really L enough with gas prices the way they are). Went to a Game Day event held at the local college (a lot closer) and had a blast. We had an array of players from newish to "I remember the three little booklets", everyone seemed impressed with how much fun the combats were and how fast they ran compared to 3rd edition. Well the combats took as long, but we got in 2-3 or more times the number of rounds.

Will probably pick up the other books from Amazon (or the whole box set again, can't go wrong with a second PHB).

(Reply to this)


[info]cowfusior
2008-06-08 04:01 am UTC (link)
Bob Mould? *New album*? Hon, that's *months* old. ;)

Oh, wait, 4E? Hmmm.... I kinda stopped paying much attention after AD&D, since I could no longer play my half-orc fighter/assassin afterwards.

But damned if I don't pick up every new expansion for MtG, though (sigh).

(Reply to this)


Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…